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Terry Fallis and David Jones created and, for four years, hosted Inside PR, the popular weekly Canadian podcast about public relations. Recently, after more than 200 episodes, Terry and David handed over hosting duties of the podcast. Here they share with CW Bulletin some tips and strategies for producing a compelling podcast.
What prompted you to create your podcast, Inside PR?
David Jones: I had been blogging for six months and listening to For Immediate Release, Across the Sound, Trafcom News, and other regular PR and marketing podcasts. For Terry and me, it was a natural extension of our social media experimentation to see if we could establish a Canadian podcast about PR.
Terry Fallis: Unlike Dave, I actually hadn’t been blogging at the time (though I have been since January 2007) but had grown dependent on my weekly fix of podcasts. We thought a podcast about PR just made sense, and it allowed us to learn about podcasting in a very focused and concentrated way.
Inside PR just marked its 200th episode. How has your podcast evolved since its first episode? And how has the podcast environment evolved?
DJ: Not as much has changed as I would have predicted. Our podcast has always been weekly without fail, approximately 30 minutes long, and woefully under-researched and poorly planned. Terry and I brought in other voices at show 100, including Martin Waxman, who has now inherited the show in its new incarnation. Content-wise, the show now focuses more energy on social media than it did in the early days. At first, we were determined not to do a podcast about podcasting and social media, but as the PR industry evolved, social media became more and more relevant and a bigger part of the discussion.
TF: Much has remained the same over the four years, including the timing, length, general approach to content, etc., but there have been a few changes. We’ve changed our podcasting equipment from the early days when we used a mixer. Now we just use good-quality digital recorders and mix all of our voices together so it sounds like we’re in the same room when in fact we’re each in our own home talking to one another over Skype. We’ve also made some format changes over the years. The latest format change was the introduction of our -30- segment, giving each co-host a chance to editorialize or extemporize on a topic without fear of being interrupted by the others. But really, the vision we had for the show in the beginning is still intact.
As veterans in the PR industry, you have extensive experience working in different communication media. What does the podcasting format allow that isn’t possible in, say, print or video?
DJ: I have a broadcast journalism degree, so I know how hard it is to make good TV. There’s so much more going on with TV, and it’s tougher to hold someone’s attention with just a talking head. Audio provides a great avenue for discussion. The interaction of two or more human voices provides a lot of context that you just can’t convey on a printed page. With podcasting you don’t really edit yourself the same way you would for other media, so personalities come through, for good and bad.
TF: I agree with Dave. Podcasting is all about one or more—preferably more—unguarded, conversational human voices. If it’s working well, it feels like you’re listening in on smart people saying interesting things about fascinating topics. I think it’s one of the best ways to learn.
How do you market your podcast and grow a loyal audience?
DJ: For Inside PR, we reached out to our friends in the social media space with promos that Terry recorded. Having a blog also helps to make the podcast searchable on Google, and obviously being listed in iTunes and other directories helps people find podcasts they’d be interested in. We set out more to be found based on the industry and topics we covered than really trying to encourage audience growth. We were shocked that 20 people listened, overwhelmed when 100 people listened, and catatonic when people started telling us they listened in China, Australia and Russia.
TF: I think audiences come back to a podcast for various reasons. Beyond the content itself, sound quality I think has a role to play. We’ve also always been quite committed to a stable show format and length, recording every week and posting at the same time each week so listeners get into a routine. They come to expect that on Wednesday morning IPR will be there waiting for them. I think the best marketing we can do is to make sure the shows themselves are good.
Because the technology is so widely available, basically anyone with a computer can make a podcast. In your opinion, are there any baseline criteria for what makes a good podcaster? Are there certain types of personalities that fit well with the podcast format?
DJ: Being relaxed and confident behind the mic is important. Keeping format and structure in mind so that you’re putting out a consistent product is important too. Paying attention to the details like the sound quality and length is more important than you’d think. Inside PR strives for quality production, interesting discussion, and consistency and dependability. We always think of the audience first.
TF: Ditto on what Dave says above. Personality is also important in engendering loyalty among your audience. Dave and I are quite different. I’m the Pollyanna optimist, and Dave is the jaded cynic. We put them together, and it seemed to work.
Do you have recommendations about the ideal length for podcast episodes, how often they should come out or how many people should be involved in each episode?
DJ: Consistency is more important to me than anything else when I listen to a podcast. I want to get used to your show and make it part of my life. I think 20–30 minutes is a good length for discussion-based shows. I get bored listening to one person’s voice for longer than 15 minutes. But these aren’t rules, just preferences…and I break them in my own listening habits every week.
TF: My standard response to the question of optimal podcast length is simply that a podcast can be as long as the content is good. I listen to some podcasts (For Immediate Release for instance) that are an hour in length. But the content is great. I’ve also listened to some 15-minute shows that seemed like they would never end. Having said that, I tend to gravitate to shows that are more than 20 minutes long. I like to get into what I’m listening to.
Terry, you used podcasting as a way to generate buzz and build an audience for your novel, The Best Laid Plans, while you went through the self-publishing process. What were the podcasts about? How successful was that effort?
TF: I actually podcast the entire novel, chapter by chapter, like an audio book. So I gave it all away for free before the book was ever published. The theory was that if listeners really enjoyed what they were hearing, they’d want to own a copy of the book as well. My experience with The Best Laid Plans convinced me of this theory. In fact, [the publisher] McClelland & Stewart is allowing me to podcast the sequel, called The High Road, in the same way. I’ll start uploading chapters of The High Road in late May even though it won’t be on bookstore shelves until September. M&S has never done this before, so I’m really hoping it all works out.
What other podcasts do you listen to? What are your favorites? How do you find your podcasts?
DJ: I listen to For Immediate Release, On the Media, This Week in Tech, Real Time with Bill Maher, Age of Persuasion, Freakonomics Radio, Quite News Day, Search Engine, Shill and Trafcom News. I find my podcasts on iTunes or through friends who share similar interests.
TF: I listen to most of the ones Dave has identified above but I also listen to a raft of book/writing/author podcasts from NPR, CBC and the BBC.
Terry Fallis is president of Thornley Fallis Communications. David Jones is vice president of digital communication at Hill & Knowlton in Toronto. |
